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	<title>The Unforgiving Minute &#187; religion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.currion.net/category/religion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.currion.net</link>
	<description>Paul Currion struggles to explain himself.</description>
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		<title>Like swatting flies (update)</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2009/06/01/like-swatting-flies-update/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2009/06/01/like-swatting-flies-update/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[abortion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George Tiller]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>When somebody acts on their beliefs, you may disagree with those beliefs, the actions that result from those beliefs or both; but at the very least, their actions reveal their convictions more honestly than their words. So when somebody shoots an &#8220;abortion doctor&#8221;1 I disagree with their beliefs, condemn their actions but praise their conviction, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When somebody acts on their beliefs, you may disagree with those beliefs, the actions that result from those beliefs or both; but at the very least, <a href="http://www.currion.net/2009/05/24/like-swatting-flies/">their actions reveal their convictions more honestly than their words</a>. So when <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8076253.stm">somebody shoots an &#8220;abortion doctor&#8221;</a><sup>1</sup> I disagree with their beliefs, condemn their actions but praise their conviction, because at least we know where we stand with those people.<sup>2</sup> Spare a thought for the many cheerleaders for this murderer, though &#8211; all of those who support the act, but lack the conviction to ever do it themselves. Their lives must be a hell of cognitive dissonance, righteously enraged at the world they find themselves in but too spineless to do anything about it.</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_705" class="footnote"><a href="http://unspeak.net/pro-woman/">Unspeak</a>, naturally &#8211; he was medical director of a women&#8217;s health care clinic.</li><li id="footnote_1_705" class="footnote">And usually we stand in a court of law, watching them being sentenced for a good long time.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Like swatting flies</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2009/05/24/like-swatting-flies/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2009/05/24/like-swatting-flies/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[abortion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>If rational debate is an airplane, then religious discussion on the web is a flock of birds right in your jet engine. This is partly the nature of religion and partly the nature of the web, and my general rule that nobody ever had their mind changed by debating their views applies. Having acknowledged that, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If rational debate is an airplane, then religious discussion on the web is a flock of birds right in your jet engine. This is partly the nature of religion and partly the nature of the web, and my general rule that nobody ever had their mind changed by debating their views applies. Having acknowledged that, I will now attempt takeoff.</p>
<p>Your attitude towards abortion will be largely determined by a single factors: your view about whether a foetus constitutes a full human person, with all the rights that go with that. If the foetus does not possess the right to life &#8211; or possesses a circumscribed right to life &#8211; then abortion may be morally acceptable. Unfortunately if you do believe that the foetus possesses a full right to life, then you&#8217;re unlikely to be convinced by somebody who doesn&#8217;t share that belief, as illustrated by a savant going by the name <a href="http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otr.cfm?id=4999">Diogenes</a><sup>1</sup>:</p>
<blockquote><p>I see nothing wrong with swatting flies.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say that you have a different opinion. You think the lives of flies are sacred, and therefore you think that swatting flies is grossly immoral. You hold this view with the utmost sincerity. Unfortunately for you, I&#8217;m making the rules. And I say:</p>
<p>* You can&#8217;t refer to fly-swatting as &#8220;murder.&#8221; That would be &#8220;hate speech,&#8221; inciting others to violence.<br />
* You can&#8217;t interfere when I swat flies.<br />
* You must contribute to the purchase of fly swatters.</p>
<p>Now, with those ground-rules established, let&#8217;s begin a civil discussion of the morality of swatting flies. There&#8217;s no need for anger, recrimination, or name-calling. We have a sincere difference of opinion. Let&#8217;s&#8211; oh, wait, excuse me a moment [thwack!]&#8211; find some common ground.</p></blockquote>
<p>This seems straightforward enough on the face of it &#8211; clever enough for some approving comments and <a href="http://www.firstthings.com/blog_entry.php?blog_id=1&amp;year=2009&amp;month=05&amp;title_link=ground-rules-for-civil-discourse">links</a> from other blogs &#8211; yet the analogy exposes the most basic problem with a &#8220;pro-life&#8221; position that abortion is murder.  Let&#8217;s say that I do believe that flies are sacred, and that swatting them is essentially murder. If I was sitting in front of Diogenes trying to have this discussion, and he started to swat flies, wouldn&#8217;t I be obliged by my beliefs to stop him? Equally, if somebody proclaims that they believe that abortion is murder, and is fully aware that murders are being regularly carried out in their vicinity, don&#8217;t they have an obligation to go out and put a stop to it as soon as possible, no matter the risk to their own lives?</p>
<p>Yet presumably Diogenes &#8211; and the vast majority of pro-life advocates &#8211; take no such action, and in such a case, there appear to be two possibilities. The first is unpleasant to contemplate: that the person who sincerely holds this belief but fails to act on it is a coward, a hypocrite and (in their own eyes, at least) an accessory to murder. I don&#8217;t think that everybody who holds this belief is such a character, however, so the second possibility seems more likely: that they don&#8217;t actually believe that abortion is murder. If the latter is true, the inevitable conclusion is that they don&#8217;t in fact believe a foetus is a full person.</p>
<p>Circumstantial evidence suggests that this is the case: take for example one of the commenters on Diogenes&#8217; post, a fellow named Exaudi nos<sup>2</sup>:</p>
<blockquote><p>All we would have to do to end this argument about flies is to line the dead ones up on the side walk in front of the establishment that brought on their demise and after the pile gets pretty deep, I think the common ground would be found.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a common trope on the anti-abortion side: if only people were aware of the true nature of abortion, they&#8217;d all come out against it, and therefore it&#8217;s acceptable to publicly exhibit the process and results of abortion.<sup>3</sup> Now I have a problem with the idea of exhibiting corpses in public, especially for political purposes, and it seems that most people share this feeling: I wouldn&#8217;t, for example, suggest that we pile up the corpses of victims of traffic accidents to make a case for more cycle paths.</p>
<p>Exaudi nos&#8217; suggestion implies that either he believes that it would be acceptable to do such a thing, or that he doesn&#8217;t believe that an aborted foetus has the same status as a corpse. If it&#8217;s the former, one has to wonder why he doesn&#8217;t propose such tactics for other political campaigns &#8211; but if it&#8217;s the latter, then the only conclusion we can draw is that, if he believes that an aborted foetus does not possess the same status as a dead person, then he neither believes that a live foetus possesses the same rights as a live person.</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_692" class="footnote">I really, really hope that pseudonym is meant to be ironic.</li><li id="footnote_1_692" class="footnote">&#8221;Hear us&#8221; for those of you who skipped Latin class and/or aren&#8217;t Catholic.</li><li id="footnote_2_692" class="footnote">I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to say that anti-abortion campaigners enjoy posting videos that graphically show aborted foetuses, but some of them do seem to take a certain grim satisfaction in it. I won&#8217;t link to any videos, but they&#8217;re easy enough to find.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Mumbai&#8217;s terror in the mirror</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/11/29/mumbai-the-terrorist-in-the-mirror/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/11/29/mumbai-the-terrorist-in-the-mirror/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[war]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[India]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mumbai]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[terrorism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Like everybody else, I read about the terror attacks in Mumbai. It&#8217;s fascinating how much this has become a global story; partly because of the terror elements, partly because of the new technology. To a large extent, however, these attacks matter because India matters. On the one hand this gladdens me &#8211; because India does [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like everybody else, I read about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2008_Mumbai_attacks">terror attacks in Mumbai</a>. It&#8217;s fascinating how much this has become a global story; partly because of the <a href="http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=2565">terror elements</a>, partly because of the <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/26/first-hand-accounts-of-terrorist-attacks-in-india-on-twitter/">new technology</a>. To a large extent, however, these attacks matter because India matters. On the one hand this gladdens me &#8211; because India does matter &#8211; but it also saddens me, because other parts of the world matter just as much.</p>
<p>The other aspect of these events that stand out is the way in which each observer &#8211; however intelligent, however well-informed &#8211; is unable to escape their own perspective. Thus <a href="http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notesarchive.php?id=2518">Butterflies and Wheels</a> sees &#8220;horrible horrible horrible people who like hurting and killing people&#8221;, the <a href="http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/11/analysis_mumbai_atta.php">Long War Journal</a> sees &#8220;Foreign assault teams that likely trained and originated from outside the country infiltrated a major city to conduct multiple attacks on carefully chosen targets&#8221;, a contributor on Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:November_2008_Mumbai_attacks#Picture_of_the_Indian_Terrorist">states with confidence</a> that he has&#8221;both Pakistani and Indian friends here in Toronto, they is a difference of NIGHT and DAY. All the Indians in our company are dark skinned and of short stature. The Pakistanis are always the opposite in physcial looks.&#8221;</p>
<p>The internet is no cure for a lack of imagination, which appears to be the single biggest stumbling block in combating terrorism. We all want the enemy to be clearly visible, to be clearly distinguishable, although most of all we want the enemy not to be us.<sup>1</sup> Yet for most outsiders, ignorant of the history of Kashmir, blind to the intersection of crime and communalism (so brilliantly sketched in <a href="http://www.suketumehta.com/">Suketu Mehta</a>&#8217;s Maximum City), unconcerned by the legacy of partition in all its forms, these attacks are an opportunity mainly to entertain their own prescriptions. It&#8217;s understandable; but it&#8217;s not enough.</p>
<p>My thoughts are with the victims of these attacks, rich and poor; but my concern is for the future victims. India has a <a href="http://www.hrw.org/legacy/englishwr2k8/docs/2008/01/31/india17605.htm">terrible track record</a> of communal violence triggered by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri">key events</a>, and these attacks are likely to have the opposite effect that the terrorists wanted &#8211; (Hindu) mob vengeance against innocent (Muslim) citizens. The question is not whether India can combat terrorism, but whether it can combat the communal tensions that provide continual fuel for that terrorism.</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_273" class="footnote">Most interesting blog post so far: a transcript of India TV&#8217;s interview with one of the terrorists at <a href="http://www.docstrangelove.com/2008/11/28/interview-with-mumbai-terrorist-translated/">How I Learned to Stop Worrying</a>.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>God the Humanitarian</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/11/22/god-the-humanitarian/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/11/22/god-the-humanitarian/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you&#8211; when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you&#8211; when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you.</p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align: right;">Proverbs 1:24-27</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">While struggling through the more dense corners of the web I found this gem, deployed by a Monopolist Christian. It&#8217;s really hard to work out what lesson they hope the heathen Other will draw from it, isn&#8217;t it? If somebody did this in real life, you&#8217;d think that they were a callous dick &#8211; but apparently it&#8217;s all good if God does it. Luckily I refuse to let this prevent me from recognising that most Christians don&#8217;t follow this particular bible passage especially closely.</p>
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		<title>Words per minute #10: Mill on Mortality</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/10/16/words-per-minute-10-mill-on-immortality/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/10/16/words-per-minute-10-mill-on-immortality/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wordsperminute]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[J.S. Mill]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>The mere cessation of existence is no evil to any one: the idea is only formidable through the illusion of imagination which makes one conceive oneself as if one were alive and feeling oneself dead. What is odious in death is not death itself, but the act of dying, and its lugubrious accompaniments: all of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><span class="pullout"><span class="line">The mere cessation of existence is no evil to any one: the idea is only formidable through the illusion of imagination which makes one conceive oneself as if one were alive and feeling oneself dead. What is odious in death is not death itself, but the act of dying, and its lugubrious accompaniments: all of which must be equally undergone by the believer in immortality. Nor can I perceive that the skeptic loses by his skepticism any real and valuable consolation except one; the hope of reunion with those dear to him who have ended their earthly life before him. That loss, indeed, is neither to be denied nor extenuated.</span></span></p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align: right;">- <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mill/">J.S. Mill</a>, <a href="http://www.laits.utexas.edu/poltheory/mill/three/utilrelig.html">The Utility of Religion</a></p>
<p style="text-align: right;">(HT: <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2008/10/06/081006crat_atlarge_gopnik?currentPage=all">Adam Gopnik</a>)</p>
<p style="text-align: right;">Also worth your time: <a href="http://www.eviltwincomics.com/ap8.php">You&#8217;re A Good Man, John Stuart Mill</a>.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Watching my words: stadiums and synagogues edition</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/09/23/watching-my-words/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/09/23/watching-my-words/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sport]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I would be remiss if I didn&#8217;t pick up on Jennine&#8217;s response to my earlier post on how religion might usefully approached in the same way as sport. I think that I meant to point out that religion is a social and cultural phenomenon in the same way as sport is, and that we can [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be remiss if I didn&#8217;t pick up on <a href="http://eninnej.tripod.com/surfacing/index.blog?entry_id=1833540">Jennine&#8217;s response</a> to <a href="http://www.currion.net/2008/08/02/mixing-faith-and-football/">my earlier post</a> on how religion might usefully approached in the same way as sport. I think that I meant to point out that religion is a social and cultural phenomenon in the same way as sport is, and that we can understand them in similar &#8211; although not identical &#8211; ways. Jennine takes a slightly different perspective:</p>
<blockquote><p>But what I want to be cautious of in a way that I don&#8217;t think Paul and Maher are, entirely, is conflating &#8220;religion&#8221; and &#8220;faith&#8221;&#8230; I agree with Maher that an intellectual grasp of religions is not sufficient to fully understand what it means to live a life of faith.</p></blockquote>
<p>Caution is always to be recommended on the Web, and I agree completely that a purely &#8220;academic&#8221; (in the derogatory sense) approach will never lead to true understanding of something so deeply felt.</p>
<p>While we agree on that, I think we disagree quite fundamentally on how <a href="http://www.religionlink.org/tip_050118a.php">religion and sport</a> look from the outside &#8211; although as Jennine says, she occupies an ambiguous position with regards to both activities due to her upbringing (which is partly my point, I think).</p>
<blockquote><p>However, knowing people of faith who live their faith &#8211; as expressed through religion &#8211; deeply and beautifully, there is something there that I just don&#8217;t see captured in sport.  And that is the relationship between a person and the divinity that they engage with.  Although supporting a sports team can offer a sense of identity and community, I hope at least, that most fans understand that the team is not invested in their wellbeing.  And that, at least in the Christian traditions I grew up in, is exactly what I was taught about God &#8211; that God is concerned with each person&#8217;s wellbeing, that God loves each individual and wants them to live a good life.</p></blockquote>
<p>That may well be what people believe about God &#8211; but, just like their favourite sports team, God does appear to keep on letting them down. And yet those people keep going back for more, just like sports fans who follow their teams despite persistent losses and consistent mismanagement. It&#8217;s all about feeling connected to a higher power &#8211; whether that higher power is Yahweh or Nike.</p>
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		<title>Mixing Faith and Football</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/08/02/mixing-faith-and-football/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/08/02/mixing-faith-and-football/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sport]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[football]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ryan Maher]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a particularly big football fan. I support Crystal Palace because their playing grounds are close to where I grew up, and I had a particularly 1970s Eagles school bag while I was doing that growing up. I&#8217;ve been to a few football matches, watched a few more on television and play football twice [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a particularly big football fan. I support Crystal Palace because their playing grounds are close to where I grew up, and I had a particularly 1970s Eagles school bag while I was doing that growing up. I&#8217;ve been to a few football matches, watched a few more on television and play football twice a week with a bunch of people who are clearly better than me.</p>
<p>In <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071802558.html">this fascinating article</a>, Ryan Maher is talking about American football rather than real football, but I think the principles are the same. In fact he&#8217;s talking about how to discuss faith in a meaningful way with those of other faiths, in the context of his work in Doha.</p>
<blockquote><p>This template for discussing religion and faith is fundamentally flawed. It presumes that different groups of faithful people approach their religions in the same way football fans approach their favorite teams: I cheer passionately for mine, you cheer passionately for yours, and we all agree to play by the rules and exhibit good sportsmanship. For people of faith, religion isn&#8217;t like that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, football isn&#8217;t like that either. That&#8217;s a very strange view of sport &#8211; a matter of etiquette rather than passion. I don&#8217;t believe that Chelsea are any good, not on the basis of the empirical evidence but because I don&#8217;t like Chelsea. I don&#8217;t believe that Crystal Palace are any good, but if people ask I&#8217;ll still say I support them. I don&#8217;t think that England are much good, but I&#8217;ll still be jumping out of my chair whenever they win a match with a goal in the last two minutes.</p>
<p>Good sportsmanship has its place on the pitch; off the pitch, the barracking that opposing supporters give each other is seldom good-natured and sometimes spills over into violence. So perhaps it would be more useful to see religion as exactly like sport &#8211; pursued by different people for different ends and in different ways, and occasionally with more agreement between people of different faiths than with those of their co-religionists?</p>
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		<title>All you need to know about Roger Scruton</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/07/16/all-you-need-to-know-about-roger-scruton/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/07/16/all-you-need-to-know-about-roger-scruton/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Roger Scruton]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>In a article for Axess entitled The Return of Religion, we are privileged to watch Roger Scruton defend a form of religion that nobody in the world actually practices &#8211; a common affliction for academic philosophers and theologians. He&#8217;s a pacy rider, but the wheels come off the wagon towards the end:</p>
<p>Yet human beings have [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a article for Axess entitled <a href="http://www.axess.se/english/2008/01/theme_scruton.php.htm">The Return of Religion</a>, we are privileged to watch Roger Scruton defend a form of religion that nobody in the world actually practices &#8211; a common affliction for academic philosophers and theologians. He&#8217;s a pacy rider, but the wheels come off the wagon towards the end:</p>
<blockquote><p>Yet human beings have an innate need to conceptualise their world in terms of the transcendental, and to live out the distinction between the sacred and the profane.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any such innate need, and consequently his entire argument is falsified.</p>
<p>POSTSCRIPT:</p>
<blockquote><p>There are questions addressed to reason which are not addressed to science, since they are not asking for a causal explanation.   One of these is the question of consciousness. [<em>Insert barely-understood and largely irrelevant reference to quantum physics to distract the punters here.</em>] Look for it wherever you like, you encounter only its objects – a face, a dream, a memory, a colour, a pain, a melody, a problem, but nowhere the consciousness that shines on them.</p></blockquote>
<p>It may be the case that the reason that we haven&#8217;t been able to &#8220;see&#8221; the consciousness before is that we didn&#8217;t have the right tools &#8211; in exactly the same way as we weren&#8217;t able (and in many cases, remain unable) to see the &#8220;great tapestry of waves and particles, of fields and forces, of matter and energy&#8221; that so impresses Scruton. It may be the case that we may be in the early stages of exploring consciousness, some years behind our journey of exploring the cosmos. It may be the case that consciousness will soon be laid bare, and that Scruton&#8217;s metaphysical discourse turns out to be a dead end.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it may not. One thing is absolutely certain, however &#8211; consciousness is very clearly and very obviously a question that is addressed to science. If I were Roger Scruton, I probably wouldn&#8217;t try to build my house of worship on this particular sand.</p>
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		<title>Hulk Smash Atheist!</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/06/16/hulk-smash-atheist/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/06/16/hulk-smash-atheist/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Incredible Hulk]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Awesome in its predictability:</p>
<p>Whether you&#8217;re an action/sci-fi movie fan or not, if you find yourself in the midst of conversation about The Incredible Hulk, try using the conversation to talk about stress &#8211; how you deal with it and how your personal relationship with Jesus impacts you when stressful times smash into your world and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080614/32815_How_to_Share_Your_Faith_Using_The_Incredible_Hulk.htm">Awesome in its predictability</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Whether you&#8217;re an action/sci-fi movie fan or not, if you find yourself in the midst of conversation about The Incredible Hulk, try using the conversation to talk about stress &#8211; how you deal with it and how your personal relationship with Jesus impacts you when stressful times smash into your world and threaten to turn you into your own raging version of The Hulk.</p></blockquote>
<p>Alternatively you could just <a href="http://www.bloggerbingo.com/bitterwomen/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/how-about-a-nice-cup-of-shut-the-fuck-up7662.jpg">relax</a>, enjoy the movie and avoid alienating your friends and colleagues completely.</p>
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		<title>First Person Singular</title>
		<link>http://www.currion.net/2008/06/13/first-person-singular/</link>
		<comments>http://www.currion.net/2008/06/13/first-person-singular/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Artificial Intelligence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cogito Ergo Sum]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eliezer Judkowsky]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Singularity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Turing test]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.currion.net/?p=179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: center;">While reading this post, you should be listening to Let the Good Times Roll by Layo and Bushwacka!</p>
<p>I tend to think that the Singularity is merely the ne plus ultra of technotopianism, a trend which must be combated wherever it is found, but I avoid talking about it for fear of drawing down [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: center;"><em>While reading this post, you should be listening to <a href="http://www.currion.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07_layo_and_bushwacka-let_the_good_times_roll-tronik.mp3">Let the Good Times Roll</a> by Layo and Bushwacka!</em></p>
<p>I tend to think that the <a href="http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jun08/6316">Singularity</a> is merely the ne plus ultra of technotopianism, a trend which must be combated wherever it is found, but I avoid talking about it for fear of drawing down the wrath of <a href="http://yudkowsky.net/">Eliezer</a> deliberately. However singularity thinking does force us to ask difficult questions about almost every aspect of human endeavour, and I like that. Probably a bit too much.</p>
<p>One such aspect is the question of what it really means to be human, intelligent and conscious, with the prospect of various combinations of biology, chemistry and engineering about to radically alter the way the human does business. You need to read a bit of background before the following will make any sense, and understand that one of the key tenets of singularity thinking is that &#8211; at some point in the near future, as computer processing power increases &#8211; it will be possible <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading">to upload a human mind to a computer</a>.</p>
<p>This raises all sorts of questions, but in the course of arguing for the singularity on <a href="http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2008/06/the-secular-rap.html">3quarksdaily</a>, Jesse M makes the following point:</p>
<blockquote><p>Of course a simulated brain would require inputs like those from a real body or it would probably go crazy or become comatose, like a person locked in a sensory deprivation tank forever.</p></blockquote>
<p>As I burnt my tongue on the pizza I&#8217;d just made, this set me thinking. What does it mean to be crazy or comatose? In essence it means that you involuntarily apply an abnormal filtering process on the inputs your brain receives. So being without inputs wouldn&#8217;t just be a cause of being crazy or comatose &#8211; it would be the result of being crazy or comatose as well. The causative chain doesn&#8217;t just go in one direction here, which makes it hard to disentangle which came first without being able to go inside and have a look &#8211; and that&#8217;s the one thing that currently we can&#8217;t do.<sup>1</sup></p>
<p>This made me think some more &#8211; what would it mean to have a brain without inputs? This is where you have to separate out mind from brain (sorry dualists): let&#8217;s say that you have a brain in a tank &#8211; how could you tell if there was anything going on inside that brain? From outside, how would you know a mind existed, if it wasn&#8217;t open to inputs against which you could test its responses as per the <a href="http://www.turing.org.uk/turing/scrapbook/test.html">Turing test</a>? From inside, how would you know you were a mind if you weren&#8217;t open to inputs against which you could define yourself (bearing in mind that even the <a href="http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=134452">Cogito</a> requires external experiences, even if only to doubt them)?</p>
<p>And then I had the flash of insight which made me forget about my burnt tongue<sup>2</sup>. A brain might exist in a purely physical sense, but without inputs it makes no sense to make the assertion that a mind exists. If there are no inputs, for all practical (and possibly for all philosophical) purposes there is no mind. It&#8217;s therefore entirely reasonable to assert that the mind exists only insofar as it interacts with an external world.</p>
<p>If this is the case, is it sensible to draw a hard line between our minds and that external world? (<a href="http://consc.net/papers/extended.html">No</a>.) Does the external world need us as much as we need it? (<a href="http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2008/06/the_reality_tests_1.php?page=1">Possibly</a>.) Does my tongue still hurt? (<a href="http://www.home-remedies-for-you.com/askquestion/12498/burnt-tongue-remedy-i-have-had-a-burnt-tongue-for-.html">Yes, but I&#8217;ll be alright</a>.) In the context of the ongoing singularity conversation, if you upload your mind to a machine, and then close that machine off to all inputs, what are the implications for the continued existence of that mind? Perhaps the Singularity doesn&#8217;t provide all the answers to the question of mortality after all.</p>
<p>The good news is that this does help to confirm my own prejudices that (a) The internet already constitutes a machine intelligence &#8211; just as these machines are becoming an extension (extrusion?) of our intelligence, we&#8217;re an extension of their intelligence &#8211; and (b) God is an emergent property of a universe with intelligence in it, in a similar way as consciousness is an emergent property of a body with a mind in it.<sup>3</sup></p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_179" class="footnote">Of course with a simulated brain it may well be possible to go inside and have a look (although I tend to doubt it, for reasons which are irrelevant to this discussion but have to do with levels of complexity). Interesting ethical question &#8211; should it be considered torture to deliberately inflict this type of condition on a conscious entity, even if it&#8217;s artificial? I strongly suspect that this may form part of the case that Eliezer makes in his <a href="http://yudkowsky.net/essays/aibox.html">AI-Box Experiment</a>.</li><li id="footnote_1_179" class="footnote">I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s some lesson in there as well, incidentally</li><li id="footnote_2_179" class="footnote">Note to self: this also creates problems for God, but he&#8217;ll have to take care of that on his own. Literally.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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